Reimagining Event Accessibility
Insights from CSUN on accessible and inclusive event practices
Events are an opportunity for connection and discovery, but for people with disabilities, they often present barriers that make participation exhausting or even impossible.
Our hosts, Katie & Kristen, reflect on their recent experience at the 40th CSUN Assistive Technology Conference. From noisy hallways to heavy hotel doors, they break down what worked, what didn’t, and why accessible design starts with real-world feedback. Joined by accessibility designer and advocate with lived experience, Tiffany Burtin, they dive into event accessibility insights and planning strategies!
Learn more about supporting people with disabilities in Tamman’s Learn Center and stay connected with us on LinkedIn.
Meet our guest:
Tiffany Burtin is a Senior Accessibility Designer and Engineer, and Accessibility Advocate with lived experience! She serves the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) as an invited expert for the Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Taskforce and the WCAG Working Group.
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Katie Samson:
Hello and welcome to Article 19. I’m Katie.
Kristen Witucki:
And I’m Kristen.
Katie Samson:
Even in the best case scenario, events such as conferences can be complex for people with disabilities to navigate. Before, during, and after an event, each of us has our own unique set of logistical and sometimes emotional considerations to think about.
Kristen Witucki:
How do I find my way in this space?
Katie Samson:
Where can I find silence besides my hotel room? Answer, nowhere.
Kristen Witucki:
How can I get to the right session and find the doorway when everything is so loud?
Katie Samson:
How do I push my wheelchair through this carpet?
Kristen Witucki:
Oh no, they forgot to submit accessible handouts again.
Katie Samson:
How do I locate a wheelchair accessible ride from the airport to the hotel?
Kristen Witucki:
I hear there’s blind people over there using voiceover and an app to navigate the hotel and I can’t figure out what they’re using.
Katie Samson:
How can I submit feedback about my experience? I often repeat the adage, if we build it, we will come. From event spaces to handouts, how can conference planners make everything more welcoming for people with different access needs?
Kristen Witucki:
Katie and I work from home, so we don’t always interact face to face, but we had a rare opportunity to gather with other colleagues for the 40th anniversary CSUN Assistive Technology Conference in Anaheim, California this past March. Take a listen to part of our conversation there.
Kristen Witucki:
Katie and I got to hang out in person and chat accessibility, which was super cool.
Katie Samson:
It was super cool. And we also met another seasoned conference attendee who we’ve invited to come on the podcast. Here we go.
Katie Samson:
We are coming to you together.
Kristen Witucki:
From Anaheim, California.
Katie Samson:
Yeah.
Kristen Witucki:
Together meaning in the same space.
Katie Samson:
Yeah.
Kristen Witucki:
That doesn’t happen.
Katie Samson:
I am actually sitting next to my colleague here.
Kristen Witucki:
I’m actually sitting on your bed.
Katie Samson:
We’re hanging in my hotel room.
Kristen Witucki:
Yeah.
Katie Samson:
Cause it’s quiet.
Kristen Witucki:
Yes.
Katie Samson:
Ish.
Kristen Witucki:
Sort of, except that it has this like very tiling feel. So we have to keep our voices low. So it doesn’t go.
Katie Samson:
But, uh, we just thought while we were here and talking, it might be kind of fun to do a brain dump about the accessibility of the conference itself and just talk through it with each other.
Kristen Witucki:
Yeah, I mean, I’m really amazed for 40 years this conference has been going on and they’ve certainly put a lot of thought into accessibility and I think the bigger it gets, the more they have to think about.
Katie Samson:
Yeah, let’s talk about just like generally, you know, we are here as presenters. We’re here as sales representatives of sorts because we’re talking about Tamman and we’re talking about CHAX, training and consulting. We’re also here as a big team and all of us in and of ourselves have our own kind of access needs. But Kristen, how have you found like just getting around the hotel and the conference overall as a cane user?
Kristen Witucki:
I think that I was thinking that my hearing in background is not as good as when I was a kid and younger, a younger adult, which is a little bit sad to me, but I have quite a bit of hearing left, but when I’m in a background a situation with a lot of noise. It’s really hard to hear the hallway changes and like doorways and things like that unless I encounter the doorway. So that’s been interesting. My favorite feature of this hotel is the elevator. Although, as we were talking about, there are also some things to improve about it. But it has the keypad on the outside of the elevator, which I’ve never encountered before, and it has a button that you can press, and when you press it, it activates the speaker, and it tells you to enter your floor number and then you do. If you accidentally enter your own floor number that you’re on already, which I’ve already done, it says access denied. Which is amazingly cool. It’s just an error message from the 1990s. I’m just so excited about that. It’s fun to just press it. But in all seriousness, once you press the right button and your chariot is coming, it tells you what car is going to come and then which direction it’s in from you and you find your elevator. What’s interesting is it doesn’t have a sensor though. If you don’t activate the speaker button, the elevator opens and closes really quickly, which can be really hard. But when you do, it sits there even after you’ve gotten in. And I’m like, it needs a sensor on the doorway to know when the person has actually walked in so it can close and go on its way. And then it announces the floor you’re going to, but it doesn’t announce all the floors. So there are some positives and negatives about this elevator set. but I do really love it, it’s my favorite floor. And there’s the same amount of noise no matter where you go, so if you’re trying to go to the exhibit halls, the conference sessions, the, I don’t know, restaurant or something, but there’s just people everywhere, so there are no really good noise clues. And they do have a tactile map, which I appreciate. I feel like when I was a kid I had a lot of exposure to tactile maps and really worked well with them, but as an adult you don’t really get access to those educational resources on a regular basis and my ability to read a map is not as good. I don’t know that it was ever great, but I think not having practice for a long time really doesn’t help. And so…
Katie Samson:
Interesting.
Kristen Witucki:
But those maps are also really busy. So they show all these different areas and I’m trying to think like, okay, I know you can’t go through walls, so you can’t, you know, you just go down a hallway, but where is the hallway? Like, where is the blank space that you’re walking? And where are the actual turns? That’s the kind of thing that I’m missing on these maps.
Katie Samson:
You know, I think built environment accessibility in hotel spaces has always been challenging. There’s certain requests that you can make in advance. For example, like I use barrier-free shower. So you request a roll-in shower because I transfer into a shower wheelchair to take my shower. And so I can’t use a tub and it’s really difficult for me to transfer into a shower bench. So different wheelchair users have different priorities. The other accommodation that you’re always looking for is just bed height. And I was actually really impressed with the bed height here. I was also talking to somebody who uses a Hoyer lift in getting into a bed and these beds you can actually put, a Hoyer lift is a sling connected to a hydraulic lift that can get into bed in and out of bed using a sling and a sort of automatic lift rather than someone lifting them themselves. And so these beds have a opening at the bottom. They’re not fixed all the way down to the floor. But the bed height’s been great for me for transferring in and out. So like those features of the hotel room are really great in that respect. There’s also like tap lights, which are awesome. There’s a full length mirror. The one thing that I’ve found in almost every hotel I’ve ever stayed in in the United States is the doors are so heavy. I mean, we’re talking way beyond ADA accommodation. Five pounds, definitely not five pounds when you’re pulling them open or trying to pull them closed. So that’s been a bit of a challenge to just like getting in and out of the room. And then the one concern that I’ve talked to with other wheelchair users is apparently they recently re-carpeted the entire hotel and they put a padding underneath the carpet. So you’re kind of wheeling through a little glue.
Kristen Witucki:
Yeah, I noticed that you’re powering through as we’re walking together.
Katie Samson:
Yeah, so I have power assist wheels. So when I give a push, they give sort of an extra rotation on my wheel because I have batteries on either hub that help propel it. So I don’t have to put too much in with my shoulder usage, but I’m still feeling it, like despite having the assist. So I can’t imagine for those who are just straight up manual wheelchair users, like they’re getting a work out. Otherwise, though, I’ve been as far as like with my hearing loss, I just think the sound and the volume of just the sheer amount of people can get to me over time. So I’ve just tried to find some time to sort of slip away and kind of experience quiet because I can get a lot of tinnitus which is just you know the ringing in my ear from so much noise and this is kind of the first time I’ve been at a conference with hearing aids so I got a new pair of hearing aids called cross hearing aids so it sends the sound on one side of my deaf ear to my stronger ear. And so that’s been really great. And I haven’t had to rely so much on captioning to kind of clarify what people are saying or sit like really close and look at the person’s mouth as they’re talking. Like a weird stalker. So that’s been really great.
Kristen Witucki:
I mean, there are so many people with disabilities.
Katie Samson:
We’re just seeing resilience left and right in every corner of this conference, especially, you know, so much of these presentations are just talking about fighting these barriers with the use constraints that frankly all humans are going to have at some point in their life.
Kristen Witucki:
Yeah, resilience and empathy.
Katie Samson:
How have you found just the way that the CSUN has set up the conference for you know, support and volunteers and
that aspect?
Kristen Witucki:
That’s been really great. The volunteers and hotel staff are very well trained.
Katie Samson:
Yeah.
Kristen Witucki:
And I’ll just, you know, walk up to someone and ask, you know, how do you get to this place? And the directions are pretty good. Or sometimes they’ll walk with me if they are a little nervous about giving directions and you know, it’s, it’s been an adventure, but certainly a very supportive one.
Katie Samson:
The one thing I will say is I feel like the volunteers are great. And they’re all in red CSUN shirts. So for those sighted, we can point them out. And, you know, I think also they’re kind of tuned into knowing when they see someone with a sight cane wandering, you know, in perhaps the wrong direction.
Kristen Witucki:
Yeah.
Katie Samson:
Help redirect without being too infantilizing.
Kristen Witucki:
No, they always ask, which is really great. And I think they’ve been trained to listen to the answers. So I think that’s wonderful.
Kristen Witucki:
I would say one of my most impactful conversations at the booth was with a parent of a young adult who had recently found out that she had cortical visual impairment. This parent just had so many questions for me. At first I was kind of like, why are you asking me all these questions? You know, because it was about like my life and myself and what I was doing and this and that and then it sort of clicked that, oh, this person is trying to figure out what life could be like for an adult with a disability.
Katie Samson:
That’s really interesting. We’re really fortunate that Tamman and CHAX really supports not only the professional development, but us just sort of getting out there and really trying to share sort of our knowledge, experience and tools and guidance around digital accessibility and market research and you know all of the areas in which we’re contributing to this conference. The takeaways for me at this point is that I’ve been to other conferences in which I have definitely been the minority for sure and if I could encourage you know so many other conferences that are out there to try to make inroads in to making their conferences more accessible and to making you know, aspects of the RFP process accessible, the planning process accessible, and to really, you know, bring in people with lived experience to contribute to kind of advising and consulting on all of the aspects to it. Like, I’m sure they do site visits to make sure everything’s up to speed, but yeah, any takeaways for you as far as like our listeners who might be thinking like, What can I learn from this?
Kristen Witucki:
I think that listeners with and without disabilities might want to check out this conference, especially if you’re listening to our podcast and really like the assistive technology episodes. This conference might be a great way to get some hands-on exposure to some of this and just to meet us in person. Not us specifically always, but just us meeting people with all kinds of lived experiences.
Katie Samson:
So true. Okay, I’m going to take a nap now.
Kristen Witucki:
Now let’s listen as Tiffany introduces herself.
Katie Samson:
Welcome Tiffany Burtin. It’s so great to have you with us. I wondered if you could just start off by telling us a little bit about your career path and as well, a little bit about your disability.
Tiffany Burtin:
Well, I came to my career very organically. I’ve worked in graphics and soft goods design web creation, business analysis and more. Currently I’m an invited expert to the W3C in the accessibility guidelines working group, as well as the cognitive and learning disabilities task force. I’m also a senior disability designer and engineer. And I’ve been around various disabilities my entire life from a very young age. My disabilities myself are equally as diverse because I have hearing, sight, mobility, and cognitive disabilities, which I use to better understand the complex reality that is the human experience. Lately, I’ve been referring to myself not as a unicorn exactly, but more a platypus since I have such a diverse set of skills and experience in one person. So before an event or a conference, what aspects really help you to feel included or excited about attending an event? I think the subject matter is what excites me the most, most oftenly. It’s always a bonus when a conference takes into consideration different modes of needs. So digital versions of the documentation, even before the conference starts, as long as we’re registered for it, could we get the materials? Those things are really helpful to not only choose which presentation that I go to. But also so that I can digest it early. And get even more benefit from the materials itself. I also really appreciate when there is the ability to have a schedule ahead of time and kind of pre-plan my event, so to speak, and have backups as well. That’s one thing that I really appreciate is to be able to add multiple things to my calendar so that if one specific talk is currently full, I can actually go to my second choice.
Katie Samson:
I just want to follow up with that because that’s something that I hadn’t actually considered that I think is really important to my experience as well. And I just want to echo that because oftentimes knowing the schedule and knowing the sessions, I have to plan around having a caregiver. And so if I know there’s a session I really want to get to at 8am in the morning, then that’s going to depend on how quickly I’m getting up in the morning, whether I need to shower the night before or so on and so forth. So I think that’s really important that knowing the schedule ahead of time and also being able to plan out your week as well, because oftentimes you might find yourself in a place where you’re visiting friends or family, or you want to take a little tourist trip somewhere outside of the conference venue itself.
Tiffany Burtin:
And I think that also plays into what the quote unquote disability tax, we have to prepare so much and think through with our caregivers with whatever devices or needs that we will have to attend to during the day. Also the transit time between different locations within the conference itself, there might be a room. That is on one side and you have to get all the way across the conference hall to the other side. But what’s not often taken into consideration, especially in situations where it would be more accessibility or assistive technology focused, there’s a lot of individuals with disabilities, whether there be white cane users, wheelchair users, or others who are grouping together because of necessity. But it’s very difficult to navigate between them in order to get to your destination, especially when there’s such a short turn between the different presentations.
Kristen Witucki:
Right? I’m just thinking about this a little bit more. And, you know, you get a 20 minute break or something and it seems like a really long time to kind of decompress. And then prepare mentally for the session, but even just the Taxing of your brain to navigate across the conference space, and then the noise around it as you’re trying to figure everything out can be you know, sort of an extra mental load that then requires you to figure out a way to build silence into your schedule or peace or however you need that tranquility.
Katie Samson:
Absolutely.
Tiffany Burtin:
I measure spoons. I actually have a health tracker that gives me quote-unquote points for the day and I’m normally, you know, assigned about 23 points in a day and I was easily spending over a hundred. My worst day there, the last conference I attended was 147 points. So it takes them to consider not only mental load, but physical load, how taxing it is to get through the environment. And I don’t think it’s often considered. There’s additional things that cause challenges. Because also it’s a networking event you will randomly see someone in your transition from one portion of the hall and you’re trying to get across, then you see someone you want to talk to and you’re like, oh my goodness, I want to talk to them. And then you miss the next session. So that’s also a benefit to having those digital versions of the presentations readily available so that in my downtime, I can go ahead and look at that presentation that I really wanted to go to but I missed because I had a networking opportunity that I couldn’t miss because we’re all in one place at one times and you want to connect with people.
Kristen Witucki:
So what can conference organizers do to really promote submissions from people with disabilities? And also, how can employers support those people who want to get out and really experience these types of environments, interact and contribute to them?
Tiffany Burtin:
I really think conference organizers need to create a really welcoming environment, balancing the number of unique presentations to those from organizations that might end up selling something at the end of the presentation, just really being well-rounded and informational, as well as taking into consideration not too many sessions have value above quantity. There were several instances when there were a high quantity of talks that numerous ones, I had six that I had on my radar that I would like to go to and see and support my friends and support people in that we’re presenting. And I couldn’t, and it made me feel guilty because I couldn’t get to all the different presentations because of the scheduling. But if I was able to review their digital content or review the video later, that’s really advantageous because I can support them or comment on LinkedIn, hey, I really liked your presentation and this is why. And it gives an opportunity to boost people that way. So Recording the presentations is really useful. So that they can be viewed by more people later on would be useful as far as supporting an employee for professional growth. It’s really, of course, an individual to each person, but I would encourage businesses to financially support if they can or rotate which people get to go to different conferences, but see if they can assist with some of the conference costs because not only is a conference normally expensive, but then especially with people with disabilities, there’s even more costs involved, whether you’re renting a mobility device to assist you or have to have special diets with you, have a care attendant and join you as well. It all adds up, but I would not discourage anyone from going because conferences do more than just expose people to new ideas. They promote networking and rekindling of the passion that people have for their particular pursuit of employment. And if you have a burnt out employee, you can send them to a conference, and it rekindles their passion, and you’d be surprised at how much it rejuvenates their perspective on the endless stream of the problems that they have to solve in their daily work life.
Katie Samson:
I absolutely love that. And I was just having this conversation, honestly, with a friend of mine, who’s a huge Phillies fan. And every once in a while, like a baseball player will get in a rut, they’ll step up to the plate and just swing and a miss countless times over and over. And it’s like, they should just send them to some Island vacation for a couple of days and like get their minds cleared or get excited about baseball and then come back and be ready to hit the ground running, so to speak, and I absolutely think you’re totally right about that with conferences. It is that rejuvenation that we’re all looking for and It’s a little bit of an escape, but it kind of lights a fire under you to get excited about the work you’re doing. So that’s great. What concerns do you have as you’re preparing, as you’re getting ready to travel to attend an event? I know you’ve been to a lot of conferences in your professional career. Have you found sort of a method that’s tried and true or do you have to sort of reevaluate almost every time?
Tiffany Burtin:
I absolutely have to reevaluate every single time. I have some very unique concerns because of the intersectional disabilities that I have. Most are hidden. So when I’m preparing to go to a conference or even just a meeting that is external to my remote environment, I have to think of every possible medical issue I might have and what I might need during that event. So bringing as many portable aids that I can, canes, braces, medications, all of this is with me in some way tucked away so that when I need it, I can use it. Just to follow up to that, you know, some of our audience members might be listening to our conversation and think, gosh, with all of this work and all of this preparation and all of this time, is it really worth it? you know, like to go and to attend these conferences and to attend these events.
Katie Samson:
And, you know, I have my own thoughts about that, you know, sort of the idea of having a disability and being at a conference in and of itself is a bit of a political act because for so long we’ve been told this space is not for us or it’s not designed for us or this job is not for you or deserve the best quality of life, but maybe in this segregated experience. So yeah, I just wondered if you have thoughts or opinions of that as well. And also Kristen, please feel free to chime in.
Tiffany Burtin:
I believe going to a conference of any kind is worth it. Whether you’re more able-bodied or if you have disabilities, it expands the mind and empathy of each individual, making sure to be inclusive and even go if it’s not an inclusive environment, we can actually work as advocates for others who may not be as strong. In their desire to be seen, we can actually be advocates to move the needle forward to say, hey, I’m here. I’m valuable. and I want to move forward. I want to learn this information. I want to know what you know.
Katie Samson:
This is really awesome. And I think we can do that in very nice ways, but still say, hey, no, I want to learn the information that you have. It’s valuable and take up space. And it’s okay to take up space. I absolutely love that. I think that’s fantastic. What was an inclusive event experience that you remember, whether it’s a conference or an event itself, and what made it so memorable to you?
Tiffany Burtin:
Well, I’ve only been to one that was physically accessible to me. It was a much smaller event, so I take that into consideration because when you have a smaller event, you’re not packing it as full. So there is more opportunity to give space. So the path between the stalls were much wider. The announcements were very clear as well as something I really appreciated just for anyone attending. At that time, I didn’t have as many hearing issues, but Clear announcements that were loud enough in multiple locations to hear as well as a handout when you entered. The expo hall that had the announcements, the scheduled timing in both written and Braille. And it was wonderful because then I knew what time this particular portion of the expo was ending and when we would transition to another section or when the doors would be closing. It was just in black and white or in braille and it was wonderful. And then they had it in announcements as well. Very, very helpful.
Kristen Witucki:
That’s always really fun. I love when I walk into an event too and just receive braille like it’s no big deal because out in the world that’s so rare and in a way is getting rarer maybe in some instances, like restaurants, which are sort of like, oh yeah, online. Like, okay, but what about the Braille? So Braille just feels so welcoming. Like, oh, I know this. So if you’re thinking about sort of the call to action for conference and event organizers, what are your top three accessibility hopes for future events?
Tiffany Burtin:
Oh goodness, just choosing three. Yeah, well you can PAC four or five if you want. I think conference organizers really need to place themselves in the perspective of the attendees and the presenters. I noticed that not all disability types were equally considered. And though not perfect, there were significant supports to blind and low vision individuals, as well as some rooms having closed caption or ASL interpreters. However, I think considerations for those with mobility, cognitive or sensory issues were not considered as much. The flow of the traffic of the room, the room layouts, the distances between rooms, quiet areas, and complex scheduling could be really taken into consideration much better. Because I think what’s not thought about is the extra time it takes to consider different distances because a person who is ambulatory and walking at a typical human speed is different than a white cane user or a person using a mobility aid, whatever the mobility aid is, as well as wheelchair users having a difficulty because a larger footprint that the chair takes up and maneuvering around people without accidentally hurting someone or accidentally rolling over a service animal. So I really appreciate when there are additional spaces for quiet areas, additional room or heads up. This is something that’s not necessarily a typical disability, but an experience that I had. I have severe allergies that I cannot help, both food allergies and environmental. And I was not warned that there was going to be extreme allergies being cooked right outside of an exposition hall, you know, I’m severely allergic to shrimp. So I had to very carefully, I can’t touch it. I can’t be around it. I have to get out of there. And it was a case where hors d’oeuvres were being, you know, brought around with, with shellfish. And I’m like, Oh my goodness, the stress. I had to escape very quickly. So taking into consideration more things, just like we do with accessibility testing. take into consideration more different types of humans.
Katie Samson:
No more shrimp. Tiffany, is there anything else that you think is important that we discuss or that you want to mention? Yeah, sort of that we might not have touched on or that additional thoughts. Well, I think one of the takeaways that we’re hoping to have our listeners think about is is this kind of idea of like the re-imagining of conferences and what that could look like? I know people have attended unconferences, which is, you know, another form of conferences altogether in which you kind of come up with ideas while you’re there with some sessions that are planned in. There are also a lot of ways that I think the digital accessibility of conference materials are getting better and better, but we still have a lot of ways to go. But overall, I think this has been really great and you’ve brought in some really great insights. So yeah, but I just wanted to give you a chance if there was stuff you wanted either in your notes or you’re like, Oh, I forgot to mention this, that we can put that down on tape while we’re here.
Tiffany Burtin:
Yes. I have a couple of ideas. Sure. It would be wonderful if. Conference organizers could really think beyond the typical bounds of presentation on screen, butts and seats in an auditorium like fashion and think of the human experience, whether it be. A person is taking up space in a chair, a person is taking up space in a wheelchair. They are choosing to stand and that’s not disruptive. Really looking at the environment so that it’s very inclusive and almost casual. One of the things that was very challenging for most of the conferences that I’ve been in, one of the things that is most challenging for conferences that I’ve attended is that the rooms are very small and they’re filled with as many chairs as possibly can fit. And again, it’s quantity over quality.
When we think about inclusive experiences, we want to have enough room to move around, have enough room to invite a person in a wheelchair, to make sure they have enough space to navigate. We want to be able to accommodate those who might need to stand because they’ve been sitting all day. And so a consideration for the different rooms is with needing to accommodate different styles, whether it be an able-bodied person walking into the room and sitting down in a chair, people taking up space in a wheelchair, people who are needing to stand because they’ve been sitting all day, or individuals that need to move around freely in order to pay attention to the presentation at hand, or different modes of sitting. I was actually at a very interesting conference once where they had bean bags in the front. And at that point, I was able to sit in one of the beanbags. And it was delightful because they had fidget spinners and beanbags at the front of the presentation. And that was so enjoyable because it took the environment to a welcoming, compassionate place and brought a little bit of fun. So I think there’s various different ways. Also the spacing between the chairs would be useful so that people just have enough room to move around.
Katie Samson:
Didn’t we learn some things from COVID that we can carry forward? I mean, I think we learned some things, but then it’s sort of like that spacing, I think got negated once we realized like, oh, more butts in seats is more revenue.
Kristen Witucki:
I feel like there’s such an eagerness to unlearn the really great lessons we learned to go in. Yeah, it’s really sad.
Katie Samson:
Well, Tiffany, this has been really great. And I thank you so, so much for your time and your willingness to come on the podcast. It’s been great to see you again since CSUN and yeah, we really appreciate it.
Kristen Witucki:
Well, thank you, Tiffany Burtin, for all of your time and insight and expertise in this area. We so appreciate the time you took with us. Wow, there’s just so much to digest in that interview, right, Katie?
Katie Samson:
Oh, yeah, there was a lot. Such a wealth of information and knowledge and experience. Did you have any favorite takeaways from our conversation?
Kristen Witucki:
Yeah, my absolute favorite just gave me a really strong tactile image in my mind of the beanbags. Yes, me too. You can just imagine like sinking into a beanbag, you know, knowing that you are welcome and you are accepted.
Katie Samson:
I also just love the idea of like middle aged white guys in blazers just like flopping down on a beanbag. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that takeaway for me is like, let’s redesign, redefine conference formats like making space, taking up space, making room with different types of seating formats, different types of chairs, allowing movement, standing up, moving around. She talked about fidget spinners. Like I think that is a really big takeaway for all of our events. People listening that are like, where do I start? I think number one is really the rows of seats all tightly packed together. Like let’s be a little bit more creative.
Kristen Witucki:
Yeah, let’s loosen that up a little bit and invite people who are possibly neurodivergent to imagine all these different space configurations.
Katie Samson:
Yeah, I would say if part one of the beanbag takeaway is the space, but then part two is also really bringing in people with lived experience from the beginning, from the planning stage. I have to tell you, I did a project with the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society a number of years ago, and I was invited in to work with the chief of show on the Philadelphia Flower Show, and it was the first time it was going to be outside. And I just remember it was in this beautiful, historic FDR park, but there weren’t curb cuts anywhere kept thinking like it would be so magical if someone in a wheelchair, someone in a scooter, someone in a stroller could just bump up right here to the sidewalk and right over here. And so we mapped out where I thought curb cuts could go and I made some recommendations. And I’m not kidding. Within 24 hours, they had a whole crew of people building temporary curb cuts to get up on the sidewalk. And I I almost cried, Kristen. Like I was so moved by the fact that not only my advice, lived experience and expertise was taken in, but put into practice like in a moment. And it was just such a feeling of, wow, I got listened to and it feels really good. And it made the experience better, I hope. And I think for a lot of people. So I think the beanbag is a big takeaway.
Kristen Witucki:
That’s just incredible to think. not only that you were listened to, but that the solution was so easy in a way that you’re like, Oh yeah, we can do that. How can we do that? You know, what can we do and how can we eventually make this permanent? You know, there’s a feeling when you propose a big solution like that, like, Oh, this is going to take too much time or too many resources, or I’m just going to burden the whole thing, bog it down. And that’s just proof. That’s absolutely not true. And that. You made an incredible contribution that helped so many people. I mean, people using strollers, people using any kind of wheeled vehicle, wheelchair, scooter to access information. That’s incredible.
Katie Samson:
What other takeaways do you think were helpful from the conversation with Tiffany or just sort of reflecting back on our conversation?
Kristen Witucki:
Well, I think I remember we were chatting a little bit in the hotel room about the importance of knowing all of the accessible features right from the get go, like knowing about them before you arrive. And or while you’re checking in is so important. And, you know, people take in information in many different ways, and sometimes don’t access all of the handy little tabs you have laid out in the event app so really making sure that people understand the accessible features you have implemented is so critical and showing that in many ways. And that way, you know, even if you haven’t implemented every single ideal accessibility feature, the ones you have, people can really take advantage of and enjoy.
Katie Samson:
Yeah, I love that. And making sure that your attendees know the information, have it in multiple formats and highlighting it on social media, being like, this is something we’re really proud to bring in. Because, you know, I always think that when you market access in a way that’s meaningful and intentional, you’re not going to lose.
Kristen Witucki:
No, no, never. Also just really training your volunteers, making sure they feel comfortable with people who have all kinds of lived experiences, inviting them in to share their own and think about how they would experience a conference. And then, you know, encouraging them to ask anyone who has an apparent disability or anyone who might see you a little bit lost or overwhelmed. Like how can they help? Because sometimes. The ways they can help can be really small so that even if a conference is not perfectly accessible, just the help means a lot and the asking and listening means a lot.
Katie Samson:
Right, right. It’s almost, you know, leaning into a little bit of that discomfort and fear of like, Am I going to say the wrong thing? I don’t know if I should address this person. They have an apparent disability, but I don’t want to be rejected.
I mean, I think it’s like that training can really help get over that discomfort and can really help people just be very present when they’re at the event and just be very open. And I would say also like casual, you know, it doesn’t have to be a formal, like, may I help you, ma’am?
Kristen Witucki:
Right. Right. Right. And if they don’t need help in the moment, it’s not a rejection. It’s just like, Oh no, I’m fine. You know, just keep your cool.
Katie Samson:
Right. This is great. I think we’ve given some good points, right? Like some good high level concepts of thinking about training, thinking about sharing that information ahead of time in multiple formats, redesigning comfort or anything else. Kristen.
Kristen Witucki:
Well, I mean, document and website accessibility is a really easy place to start. You know, if built environment is a little bit intimidating, starting with your virtual environment and text training and consulting can help with that either just an outright remediation if you need that, or just looking at your docs and letting you know, you know, Oh yeah, this part’s great. This part’s not so good in your documents, having good all tech and heading structure can go a really long way, making people feel welcome before they get there.
Katie Samson:
Yeah, absolutely. And we also have got some drop-in classes that I think a lot of people listening might be interested in checking out the website, ChaxPC.com and finding out we’ve got one coming up about accessible email basics, designing those, sending out your emails, and then also thinking about accessible presentations in general. Come to us. We’ve got some solutions.
Kristen Witucki:
So we have a surprise and it’s thanks to Steve Levine, who was on a previous episode about 504. Steve, if there’s anyone who knows how to network, it is Steve, right? Yeah. I mean, he just like gets himself in there and it’s all the good stuff. So he got a video of arguably CSUN’s most famous attendee, Stevie Wonder chatting about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And. You know, I think the video really highlights our feeling that you don’t have to have perfection. You just have to have progress and that scrapping the whole thing because it’s not perfect is absolutely not the answer. So, you know, Stevie wonder really appreciates this and approaches it with courage, compassion and action.
Katie Samson:
And I hope we can all learn from that. Absolutely. Take it away, Stevie.
Stevie Wonder (Recording from Event):
Which then ties to that thing called DEI that some people are saying, let it go. But, it’s impossible to me to let the rights of people go when you do it to try to get rid of certain people. To me, that’s Called Bull***t! [Crowd Applause]
Kristen Witucki: Our guest today is Tiffany Burtin. I’m Kristen Witucki, and Katie Sampson and I co-hosted this episode. Markus Goldman is our Executive Producer. Support for this episode also came from Sydney Brownfield, Steve Levine, Sloan Miller, and Lena Marchese. For more content, please visit Tammaninc.com. That’s T-A-M-M-A-N-I-N-C dot com. Article 19 is a call for others to join us in a conversation around the ADA, digital technology, and access to information. At Tamman, we’re working to build the inclusive web every day. And to do that, it takes all of us working together and learning together. Until next time, thank you so much for listening and being a part of our journey. Take care.
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